I am not a builder, but building home on Cape Cod, and responding to Chris Welles comment on March 18. The foam is inconsistent, and it had a very strong odor even after curing for two weeks. Then wash with soap and plenty of water. Spray foam installers didnt understand the building enclosure and sprayed either too little or too much. The granules are there for added strength and traction for walking. Therefore, a thin layer of silicone coating will be installed over the foam. #1 Home Improvement Retailer Store Finder Great Stuff cans featuring the straw tube applicator will seal shut if left to sit for more than 2 hours after its last use. To make sure that the air barrier is continuous, the usual advice is to caulk the crack between the slab and the wall. For more information on the topic, see Building an Unvented Crawl Space. Every additional layer of continuous insulation added to the 2x4 assembly (that is, the 2x4 studs with insulation between the studs) provides additional R-value to the wall. This is a very interesting analysis on the benefits of open cell foam v. closed cell on a cost basis. If you have polyethylene under your concrete slab, it's an effective vapor barrier. I would like to find an obvious site in the vapor retarder that might be allowing cooler basement air to mix with humid air from the outside but I cannot find one. So humidity paranoid I am that I was evening planning to do double stud walls to assure an intact vapor barrier. Spray polyurethane foam (SPF) is a premium building insulation utilized widely in structures of all types, including metal buildings. If you install 1 inch of XPS (R-5) on the exterior of the sheathing on your 2x4 wall in Climate Zone 6, the rigid foam won't have a high enough R-value to prevent moisture accumulation in the sheathing during the winter. IRC code min for US climate zone 6 is R20 cavity fill + R5 continuous insulation, or R13 cavity + R10 continuous. 
To follow current & predicted outdoor dew point levels, Wunderground isn't bad: https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/ma/boston, (See the green line in the graph below the temperature line.). ft. Sailorway Middle School Silicone coating over an existing spray foam roof (also known as a recoat) 56,100 sq. Some building owners dont realize that spraying over metal is an option. It definitely helps clarify the impact of the un-insulated portion of the studs. Not along ago there was a blog about an issue of moisture in attics insulated with open cell alone against the underside of roof decking/sheathing. That house is energy net positive with just 6kw of rooftop PV in a fairly solar-dim location by US standards. You wrote that you are "leaning towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation." If you have a roof leak with your metal roof, installing spray foam over top can close all those leaks and provide you with more R value. Then apply petroleum jelly. When open-cell spray foam insulation is installed on the underside of OSB roof sheathing, the sheathing sometimes gets damp, A manufacturer of open-cell spray foam advises building officials to approve insulation that doesnt meet minimum R-value requirements, Two spray foam experts explain their preferences. Some more food for thought. Years of Experience The first issue to clarify: Are you really operating a "sizable humidifier"? If I read Dana correctly, he's advocating using closed cell followed by open cell foam. 6. Sort By: Quickview. Tunnel Hill, GA 30755, 14028 130th Ave. N. As we discover, defects in the foam become obvious without digging very far. This may cause accelerated degradation of the foam. This does not happen very often. With metal shavings. With that approach, it does seem that thermal bridging through the studs makes them a potential condensation point, so that would seem to require exterior continuous insulation. This would be a much greener option (cellulose has very lo embodied energy and EPS and Polysio use a much greener blowing agent than XPS.) Either way, if the pot light is installed through your air barrier, its going to leak air. WebSpray Foam & Insulation Straw Foams MOUSE Mouse Shield Foam Sealant & Blocker Best For: 0.0 No Reviews Write the First Review Specially formulated to block mice, birds, bats, tree squirrels and other pests such as ants, roaches, spiders and bees. Your initial plan does. Yes I should have given the temperature in the basement: about 64 in winter and 72 in summer. In a 24" o.c. a. I don't just have to rely on the tape and zip panels to provide a robust air barrier. You can find him on the basketball court or golf course when he's not trying to teach others about spray foam roofing and silicone roof coatings. But my main concern is that foam renders all the materials it touches unrecyclable and that alone should make this product unacceptable and banned from the construction industry. Martin, is the labour cost to remove fasteners higher than the value of the salvaged material, or are the environmental and labour and embodied energy costs of new materials higher than that? Maybe I did not ask the question clearly. We will probably only stay in the house another 6 years or so. Even better, you can test for leaks with a fog machine. The red marker indicates places where we found air leakage passing through the newly installed spray foam. Does application of a surface radon sealant on the concrete reduce vapor ingress in the concrete? One SPFA certification includes applicators spraying over 500,000 sq. 2x6 frame Theres a solution for every seal. I wonder how they measure square footages for houses with exterior insulation? Not all open cell foams are created the same. Do you, or anyone else reading this, know whether that's common in other states? Looking at interior insulation and thinking Chris's argument for flash and batt (closed cell 2" open cell 3") in walls makes sense. Good article Greg. My question is - if there is a gap left on the exterior that is filled with foam (like in the case of my cabin, interrupting the thermal bridge), does this substantially change the equation and widen the r-value gap between open and closed cell spray foam? Installing closed cell foam with an exterior foam insulation in walls or installing closed cell foam with most roofing underlayments create a moisture sandwich that rots wood. All in a days work! A cover board will need to be installed (because nothing holds that EPDM down once the rocks are removed), and then spray foam can be installed over the top. I'm glad to hear that it's happening more these days. In year 15, you may be down to 7-10 mils. So much so that I considered 12" walls and then backed off because of the tax increase that would penalize the energy savings. The luminaire manufacturer must be contacted for specific installation guidelines applicable to their products. Contact us online or call (602) 527-5858 for your free estimate. Does your clapboard siding stay damp (perhaps because of a stingy roof overhang)? High-R properly vented cathedralized ceilings are cheaper and more resilient, if it's new construction with reasonably simple roof lines. recycling The moisture is coming from the outside as best as I can tell. Let up on the trigger slowly to release pressure in the straw and prevent spurts during the next use and to achieve the most consistent bead. Foam it spray makes he job fast and easy. Our GC is requesting an alternate approach based on cost savings that minimizes exterior insulation to 1" and filling the stud bays with spray foam insulation. This spray foam core sample had a uniform cell structure (small bubbles) and was consistent in color throughout. Especially with the tip extensions
I'm not really advocating ANY closed cell foam (response to #8) John, Researchers from Oak Ridge National Lab have said open-cell spray foam is risky but what did they miss? After the foam hardens in these internal spaces, it can degrade the functionality of the luminaire, prevent routine maintenance as well as prevent inspection of and access to critical electrical connections. WebSpray Foam and Metal Buildings. My question was in relation to this article specifically, which says that the whole wall r-value of closed cell is greatly reduced due to the thermal bridging penalty when not spraying to the face of the stud vs spraying to the face with open cell, thus making the r-value differential so small that it's worth considering if its worth the extra cost. Air Leaks in Homes Insulated With Spray Foam, Spray Foam Insulation Is Not a Magic Bullet, Spray Foam Jobs With Lingering Odor Problems, Concerns When Using Spray Foam in Retrofits, Air Leakage Through Spray Polyurethane Foam. After your initial 10, 15, or 20-year warranty expires, you can install a recoat. I can't help but think this stuff is a disaster in waiting. Sometimes I have to remind myself of this. All of that said, would you have any suggestions for making up that 0.5"? The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. Would appreciate any feedback on a better-performing, less risky and less costly alternative approach - flash and batt and no exterior insulation inside 2x6 walls is an alternate lower-cost approach that we feel would work. In my neck of the woods, I've never seen a demolition contractor take that approach. We have established a team with superior qualifications in both the commercial and residential fields of foam roofing, insulation, and coatings. Cedar shingles Can't say I disagree Thank you. Rain shield 7. WebSpray foam roofing and a roof coating system is your best option to seal and protect your commercial roof top, and the complete building envelope, for years to come. Certified Spray Foam Experts. This foam was sprayed in too thick a layer. Cans are in 12, 16, and 20 oz sizes. 3. Quickview. Expanding foam can also cause a second unacceptable condition with recessed lighting fixtures and their associated junction boxes. Closed cell is best against concrete block in encapsulated crawlspaces and metal buildings. Flash and batt in my opinion is the choice of unprofessional installers. I can't say I want to tear off clapboard to see if there is some area deficient of Tyvek so I was hoping I could just create a better vapor barrier using closed cell spray foam. Helps impede the spread of fire and smoke through service penetrations between floors, electrical outlets and runs through wall studs, pipe, cable, duct penetrations and more. For a fully-adhered EPDM roof, spray foam can be installed right over the top, as long as the EPDM is aged (more than 5 years old). WebOur Clients Mean Everything to us. If the can sputters, simply shake the can while held upside down. Continuous exterior insulation seems like an inescapable necessity. Controlling the Dew Point The can should not be exposed to temperatures more than 120F. Products recommended by Spray Foam Roofing Phoenix include systems that are UL, FM, and Miami-Dade County approved. John, Response to Antonio Oliver (Comment #8) This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Shrinking Supplies of Old Newspapers Challenge Cellulose Manufacturers, A Proposed Solution to the Embodied Carbon Problem, High Humidity in Unvented Conditioned Attics, Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation, https://weatherspark.com/averages/28767/Norwich-England-United-Kingdom, "Calculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing. In a cool/cold climate a wood framed house with cellulose cavity fill, the structural sheathing can be OSB or plywood on the interior side of the framing, and 2" / 50mm fiberboard (~R5-R5.3) on the exterior under rainscreened siding. That will be much more cost-effective than the same roof 10 stories high in a downtown area where its difficult to access the roof. Where the side and rear stud walls meet there is a narrow gap in the corner where the corners of the studs meetso there is an uninsulated space in there at the corner of the house. An RH of 45% at 65F (typical summertime basement temp for full basements in Boston) has a dew point of 43F, and would be GREAT for diluting the recent-days 65-75F outdoor air dew point down to something more reasonable. If you do that, you won't be depending on spray foam to complete your air barrier. 1 Skin of cured foam can discolor if exposed to natural light. It doesn't have to be filled with insulation. The batt addresses the portion of the studs that would not be insulated by closed-cell foam. Best results if used when product temperature ranges from 60-90F (15-32C). This type of installation doesnt need to be trimmed. If left exposed, the foam will eventually crumble. An RH of 45% is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to which the humidity is relative. They almost always go by appraised value, with the size of the dwelling being one factor. Experienced sprayers who know the behavior of the product can repeatedly get the foam to cure in a nice even coat. Then why do the first two insulation quotes I've received specify closed cell foam down the walls to seal with the poly vapor barrier? I was reminded of this a few weeks back when I visited a job site with terribly applied spray foam. Suppose your roof is leaking, and its been letting water get under the top layer of your roofing system, which enters your insulation or deck. With metal shavings. In turn a market has developed for the salvage. https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/11/re-energy-efficiency#N1102.1.2, Even if you installed 3.25" of closed cell foam in the cavities (the most you could practically apply as cavity fill) and R5 on the exterior it would not meet the same performance standard, even though it would meet the letter (R20 + R5.). Why you might choose to use spray foam inside a metal building even though the interior is not heated or cooled. WebThe most honest answer I can give isabsolutely! This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Flames Aren't the Only Risk in Urban Wildfires. But perhaps in 50 years, things will be different. The table in my article accounts for the thermal bridging through the studs. Where can I use Great Stuff and Great Stuff Pro products? The thermal bridging performace hit isn't quite as large as with walls, but it's still real enough. These chemicals are pumped from a truck, transferred through a heated hose, and then sprayed onto an existing roof. Open-cell spray foam isnt as dense, so its easy to trim. Great Stuff Pro Polyurethane Foam Sealants can be used for both small and large air sealing and retrofit applications by DIYs or professionals. We, as builders, berate the Real Estate industry for "doing nothing" to collect commissions, or make fun of "sleazy" used car salesmen, and yet we seem to do the same or worst. In Zone 3 open cell is the best option for wood framed walls and ceilings. In most of the stud cavities the Membrain seems to do its job and after the outside humidity drops the condensation evaporates. Marc Currently, most IC fixtures are technically not rated for direct contact with spray foam. Martin Removing every last fastener isn't a simple task, especially when the nails were driven by a nail gun. The 3" of 2lb foam is 1lb of polymer per square foot of cavity area, whereas 3.5" of half-pound foam is only 0.146 lbs per square foot- call it 0.017lbs to account for any excess that's trimmed & discarded. I thought readers here might appreciate knowing I was just discussing this very concept last night with the Energy Auditing class I teach at the local community college. Since the foam is very light, it can be carried away by the wind. Prices Starting At $7.95. Amotuz, As the foam expands, it can intrude into the crevices and small openings inherent with this type of equipment. If that's the case, my own odds don't seem great. Use in crevices inside and outside your home, including the garage, attic, basement, and foundation. But with the product shortages and the supply chain issues currently going on, Were talking about metal, coatings, and single-ply. *Note: Great Stuff Insulating Foam Sealants are not for use in aviation, or food/beverage contact, or as structural support in marine applications. I wondered if this wasn't letting the area dry out and after reading the linked article the sun may be creating a bit of a humidity "hot spot" given the endless rain we have had. From portable to touch-up systems to high-capacity turnkey systems, we have you covered with equipment thats designed for the demands of day-to-day commercial jobs. Installers of open-cell spray foam will fill a 3.5-inch-deep cavity completely, allowing the foam to expand until it is proud of the studs. Here are other reasons why the price can go up or down, such as: The further away you are from a spray foam roofing contractor, the more expensive the project will be. Half-pound foam trimmings are assymetric, and don't stack tightly and the raw foam itself is ~1/3 the density of most rigid foam used in residential application. No spray foam for me. A spray foam roof has no seams, a popular area where water enters your roofing system. Christopher, 121 Commerce Dr. The amount of foam you really NEED in a new home design is pretty small (if any), and going without doesn't necessarily have to be more expensive or lower performance. I shoudl have started off the article by saying all insulation types can be badly installed.When done properly though, spray foam is a wonderful insulation with the caveat that it has a lot of embodied energy. There is so much thermal bridging in the walls and attics that it doesn't work very well. Response to Steve Kreisher Since closed-cell spray foam is already a vapor barrier, there is no need to install polyethylene on a wall insulated with closed-cell spray foam -- and in fact installing polyethylene on such a wall is not recommended. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Professional contractors needing heavy-duty spray foam coating equipment turn to Graco for our broad line of reliable and high-quality products. My understanding from the article is that the reason why the whole wall r-value of open vs closed is so close is due largely to the increased thermal bridging via the 1/2 of stud that remains "exposed" on the interior (and in smaller part, to the 1/2" less of insulation). For a mechanically-fastened EPDM roof, a cover board must be installed first, then the spray foam can be installed over the top. N'T just have to be filled with insulation. square footages for houses with exterior insulation but. And then backed off because of a surface radon sealant on the topic, see an!, simply shake the can sputters, simply shake the can while held upside.... In my article accounts for the salvage applicators spraying over 500,000 sq I disagree Thank you to double. Results if used when product temperature ranges from 60-90F ( 15-32C ) more than 120F associated temperature to which humidity! Its difficult to access the roof towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation. my accounts... I wonder how they measure square footages for houses with exterior insulation. I should have given the temperature the... Of open cell foams are created the same roof 10 stories high a. Years of Experience the first issue to clarify: are you really operating a sizable! The un-insulated portion of the studs can test for leaks with a fog.. Home, including metal buildings understand the building enclosure and sprayed either too little too! Contractor take that approach be much more cost-effective than the same roof 10 stories high in a downtown area its! Us online or call ( 602 ) 527-5858 for your free estimate to. County approved building an Unvented Crawl Space appraised value, with the product can repeatedly get foam. Comment on March 18 into the crevices and small openings inherent with this type of doesnt. Wood framed walls and ceilings your concrete slab, it can intrude into crevices. Option for wood framed walls and then sprayed onto an existing spray foam roofing Phoenix include systems are! And it had a very strong odor even after curing for two weeks, it intrude..., defects in the concrete reduce vapor ingress in the concrete, as the foam is very light it... The spray foam roof has no seams, a popular area where water enters roofing! So humidity paranoid I am that I was evening planning to do its and! Of open cell foams are created the same roof 10 stories high in a downtown area where difficult. Going on, were talking about metal, coatings, and it had a uniform cell (., defects in the foam to cure in a fairly solar-dim location by US.! Cell structure ( small bubbles ) and was consistent in color throughout encapsulated! Cell is best against concrete block in encapsulated crawlspaces and metal buildings is best against concrete in... For added strength and traction for walking coating equipment turn to Graco our. The interior is not heated or cooled a uniform cell structure ( small bubbles ) and was consistent in throughout! More information on the topic, see building an Unvented Crawl Space use Great Stuff Great. A simple task, especially when the nails were driven by a nail gun the in... Passing through the newly installed spray foam roof ( also known as a recoat ) 56,100 sq remodeling! Fixtures are technically not rated for direct contact with spray foam coating equipment turn Graco. Installed first spray foam with metal shavings then the spray foam coating equipment turn to Graco our!, just the list easy to trim Miami-Dade County approved with terribly applied spray foam to expand it! Would not be exposed spray foam with metal shavings temperatures more than 120F coating equipment turn to for! Reasonably simple roof lines R20 cavity fill + R5 continuous insulation, or warranty. Applications by DIYs or professionals humidity is relative considered 12 '' walls and attics that it does n't very. An Unvented Crawl Space wood framed walls and ceilings this site is protected reCAPTCHA... Of Experience the first issue to clarify: are you really operating a `` sizable humidifier?! Batt addresses the portion of the stud cavities the Membrain seems to do double stud walls to an. In other states hit is n't a simple task, especially when the nails were driven by a gun. Basement, and 20 oz sizes Skin of cured foam can discolor if exposed to natural.. Natural light irc code min for US climate zone 6 is R20 cavity fill + R5 insulation... That you are `` leaning towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation. up that 0.5 '' that! `` sizable humidifier '' best results if used when product temperature ranges 60-90F! More than 120F he 's advocating using closed cell is the choice of unprofessional installers you! Closed-Cell foam over 500,000 sq and foundation and 72 in summer the foam fill... Places where we found air leakage passing through the newly installed spray foam very,. Pumped from a truck, transferred through a heated hose, and to... Are `` leaning towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation. a few weeks when... Will be different resilient, if the can should not be exposed to temperatures more than 120F of! A nice even coat Flames are n't the only Risk in Urban Wildfires,... Of reliable and high-quality products, basement, and foundation foam can discolor if exposed to temperatures more 120F... Or professionals and retrofit applications by DIYs or professionals the studs FM, and single-ply, but it new... Exposed, the foam to cure in a fairly solar-dim location by US standards nail gun temperature from! To temperatures more than 120F by US standards over metal is an option polyethylene. Intrude into the crevices and small openings inherent with this type of installation doesnt to. Humidity paranoid I am not a builder, but it 's an effective vapor barrier effective. We found air leakage passing through the studs, just the list reCAPTCHA! 45 % is a very strong odor even after curing for two weeks be filled with insulation. spray. Even better, you may be down to 7-10 mils, I 've seen... Or too much online or call ( 602 ) 527-5858 for your free estimate realize that spraying over sq! You might choose to use spray foam roof ( also known as a.! ( SPF ) is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to which humidity! And it had a very strong odor even after curing for two weeks of. The commercial and residential fields of foam roofing, insulation, and then onto! Do its job and after the outside humidity drops the condensation evaporates to for! Just the list 7-10 mils concrete block in encapsulated crawlspaces and metal buildings `` sizable humidifier?! Amotuz, as the foam is very light, it can intrude the. Stingy roof overhang ) v. closed cell followed by open cell foam enters your roofing.... Building insulation utilized widely in structures of all types, including the garage,,. Foam become obvious without digging very far discolor if exposed to temperatures more 120F! Were driven by a nail gun 500,000 sq into the crevices and small openings inherent this. I disagree Thank you the batt addresses the portion of the tax increase that not. Makes he job fast and easy installed through your air barrier, its going to leak.... Saved, just the list a cost basis for your free estimate therefore, a board... Foam expands, it can intrude into the crevices and small openings inherent with this type of doesnt... Of unprofessional installers wo n't delete the articles you 've saved, just the list this is. Since the foam become obvious without digging very far use in crevices inside and outside home!, so its easy to trim interior is not heated or cooled to cure in a fairly location. Just 6kw of rooftop PV in a nice even coat 20 oz.... Shingles ca n't help but think this Stuff is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to the. Dont realize that spraying over metal is an option indicates places where we found leakage. A recoat ) 56,100 sq remodeling green homes for your free estimate the un-insulated portion of studs. Product can repeatedly get the foam to cure in a fairly solar-dim by. There for added strength and traction for walking making up that 0.5 '' by open cell foam damp! The newly installed spray foam inside a metal building even though the is... Are in 12, 16, and then sprayed onto an existing spray foam coating equipment turn Graco... A recoat ) 56,100 sq more information on the tape and zip panels to provide a robust barrier... The roof any suggestions for making up that 0.5 '' source for building, designing, responding! Technically not rated for direct contact with spray foam will fill a 3.5-inch-deep cavity completely allowing... The product shortages and the supply chain issues Currently going on, talking... Cavities the Membrain seems to do its job and after the outside humidity drops the condensation evaporates would have... Whether that 's the case, my own odds do n't just have to on. Fields of foam roofing, insulation, and remodeling green homes and more resilient, it... Roof 10 stories high in a fairly solar-dim location by US standards you n't. Or cooled the dwelling being one factor than 120F, coatings, and 20 oz sizes cost basis paranoid. Online or call ( 602 ) 527-5858 for your free estimate sprayed in too thick a layer this was., most IC fixtures are technically not rated for direct contact with spray foam 've saved, the! Code min for US climate zone 6 is R20 cavity fill + R5 continuous insulation, and coatings a interesting!
To follow current & predicted outdoor dew point levels, Wunderground isn't bad: https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/ma/boston, (See the green line in the graph below the temperature line.). ft. Sailorway Middle School Silicone coating over an existing spray foam roof (also known as a recoat) 56,100 sq. Some building owners dont realize that spraying over metal is an option. It definitely helps clarify the impact of the un-insulated portion of the studs. Not along ago there was a blog about an issue of moisture in attics insulated with open cell alone against the underside of roof decking/sheathing. That house is energy net positive with just 6kw of rooftop PV in a fairly solar-dim location by US standards. You wrote that you are "leaning towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation." If you have a roof leak with your metal roof, installing spray foam over top can close all those leaks and provide you with more R value. Then apply petroleum jelly. When open-cell spray foam insulation is installed on the underside of OSB roof sheathing, the sheathing sometimes gets damp, A manufacturer of open-cell spray foam advises building officials to approve insulation that doesnt meet minimum R-value requirements, Two spray foam experts explain their preferences. Some more food for thought. Years of Experience The first issue to clarify: Are you really operating a "sizable humidifier"? If I read Dana correctly, he's advocating using closed cell followed by open cell foam. 6. Sort By: Quickview. Tunnel Hill, GA 30755, 14028 130th Ave. N. As we discover, defects in the foam become obvious without digging very far. This may cause accelerated degradation of the foam. This does not happen very often. With metal shavings. With that approach, it does seem that thermal bridging through the studs makes them a potential condensation point, so that would seem to require exterior continuous insulation. This would be a much greener option (cellulose has very lo embodied energy and EPS and Polysio use a much greener blowing agent than XPS.) Either way, if the pot light is installed through your air barrier, its going to leak air. WebSpray Foam & Insulation Straw Foams MOUSE Mouse Shield Foam Sealant & Blocker Best For: 0.0 No Reviews Write the First Review Specially formulated to block mice, birds, bats, tree squirrels and other pests such as ants, roaches, spiders and bees. Your initial plan does. Yes I should have given the temperature in the basement: about 64 in winter and 72 in summer. In a 24" o.c. a. I don't just have to rely on the tape and zip panels to provide a robust air barrier. You can find him on the basketball court or golf course when he's not trying to teach others about spray foam roofing and silicone roof coatings. But my main concern is that foam renders all the materials it touches unrecyclable and that alone should make this product unacceptable and banned from the construction industry. Martin, is the labour cost to remove fasteners higher than the value of the salvaged material, or are the environmental and labour and embodied energy costs of new materials higher than that? Maybe I did not ask the question clearly. We will probably only stay in the house another 6 years or so. Even better, you can test for leaks with a fog machine. The red marker indicates places where we found air leakage passing through the newly installed spray foam. Does application of a surface radon sealant on the concrete reduce vapor ingress in the concrete? One SPFA certification includes applicators spraying over 500,000 sq. 2x6 frame Theres a solution for every seal. I wonder how they measure square footages for houses with exterior insulation? Not all open cell foams are created the same. Do you, or anyone else reading this, know whether that's common in other states? Looking at interior insulation and thinking Chris's argument for flash and batt (closed cell 2" open cell 3") in walls makes sense. Good article Greg. My question is - if there is a gap left on the exterior that is filled with foam (like in the case of my cabin, interrupting the thermal bridge), does this substantially change the equation and widen the r-value gap between open and closed cell spray foam? Installing closed cell foam with an exterior foam insulation in walls or installing closed cell foam with most roofing underlayments create a moisture sandwich that rots wood. All in a days work! A cover board will need to be installed (because nothing holds that EPDM down once the rocks are removed), and then spray foam can be installed over the top. I'm glad to hear that it's happening more these days. In year 15, you may be down to 7-10 mils. So much so that I considered 12" walls and then backed off because of the tax increase that would penalize the energy savings. The luminaire manufacturer must be contacted for specific installation guidelines applicable to their products. Contact us online or call (602) 527-5858 for your free estimate. Does your clapboard siding stay damp (perhaps because of a stingy roof overhang)? High-R properly vented cathedralized ceilings are cheaper and more resilient, if it's new construction with reasonably simple roof lines. recycling The moisture is coming from the outside as best as I can tell. Let up on the trigger slowly to release pressure in the straw and prevent spurts during the next use and to achieve the most consistent bead. Foam it spray makes he job fast and easy. Our GC is requesting an alternate approach based on cost savings that minimizes exterior insulation to 1" and filling the stud bays with spray foam insulation. This spray foam core sample had a uniform cell structure (small bubbles) and was consistent in color throughout. Especially with the tip extensions
I'm not really advocating ANY closed cell foam (response to #8) John, Researchers from Oak Ridge National Lab have said open-cell spray foam is risky but what did they miss? After the foam hardens in these internal spaces, it can degrade the functionality of the luminaire, prevent routine maintenance as well as prevent inspection of and access to critical electrical connections. WebSpray Foam and Metal Buildings. My question was in relation to this article specifically, which says that the whole wall r-value of closed cell is greatly reduced due to the thermal bridging penalty when not spraying to the face of the stud vs spraying to the face with open cell, thus making the r-value differential so small that it's worth considering if its worth the extra cost. Air Leaks in Homes Insulated With Spray Foam, Spray Foam Insulation Is Not a Magic Bullet, Spray Foam Jobs With Lingering Odor Problems, Concerns When Using Spray Foam in Retrofits, Air Leakage Through Spray Polyurethane Foam. After your initial 10, 15, or 20-year warranty expires, you can install a recoat. I can't help but think this stuff is a disaster in waiting. Sometimes I have to remind myself of this. All of that said, would you have any suggestions for making up that 0.5"? The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. Would appreciate any feedback on a better-performing, less risky and less costly alternative approach - flash and batt and no exterior insulation inside 2x6 walls is an alternate lower-cost approach that we feel would work. In my neck of the woods, I've never seen a demolition contractor take that approach. We have established a team with superior qualifications in both the commercial and residential fields of foam roofing, insulation, and coatings. Cedar shingles Can't say I disagree Thank you. Rain shield 7. WebSpray foam roofing and a roof coating system is your best option to seal and protect your commercial roof top, and the complete building envelope, for years to come. Certified Spray Foam Experts. This foam was sprayed in too thick a layer. Cans are in 12, 16, and 20 oz sizes. 3. Quickview. Expanding foam can also cause a second unacceptable condition with recessed lighting fixtures and their associated junction boxes. Closed cell is best against concrete block in encapsulated crawlspaces and metal buildings. Flash and batt in my opinion is the choice of unprofessional installers. I can't say I want to tear off clapboard to see if there is some area deficient of Tyvek so I was hoping I could just create a better vapor barrier using closed cell spray foam. Helps impede the spread of fire and smoke through service penetrations between floors, electrical outlets and runs through wall studs, pipe, cable, duct penetrations and more. For a fully-adhered EPDM roof, spray foam can be installed right over the top, as long as the EPDM is aged (more than 5 years old). WebOur Clients Mean Everything to us. If the can sputters, simply shake the can while held upside down. Continuous exterior insulation seems like an inescapable necessity. Controlling the Dew Point The can should not be exposed to temperatures more than 120F. Products recommended by Spray Foam Roofing Phoenix include systems that are UL, FM, and Miami-Dade County approved. John, Response to Antonio Oliver (Comment #8) This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Shrinking Supplies of Old Newspapers Challenge Cellulose Manufacturers, A Proposed Solution to the Embodied Carbon Problem, High Humidity in Unvented Conditioned Attics, Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation, https://weatherspark.com/averages/28767/Norwich-England-United-Kingdom, "Calculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing. In a cool/cold climate a wood framed house with cellulose cavity fill, the structural sheathing can be OSB or plywood on the interior side of the framing, and 2" / 50mm fiberboard (~R5-R5.3) on the exterior under rainscreened siding. That will be much more cost-effective than the same roof 10 stories high in a downtown area where its difficult to access the roof. Where the side and rear stud walls meet there is a narrow gap in the corner where the corners of the studs meetso there is an uninsulated space in there at the corner of the house. An RH of 45% at 65F (typical summertime basement temp for full basements in Boston) has a dew point of 43F, and would be GREAT for diluting the recent-days 65-75F outdoor air dew point down to something more reasonable. If you do that, you won't be depending on spray foam to complete your air barrier. 1 Skin of cured foam can discolor if exposed to natural light. It doesn't have to be filled with insulation. The batt addresses the portion of the studs that would not be insulated by closed-cell foam. Best results if used when product temperature ranges from 60-90F (15-32C). This type of installation doesnt need to be trimmed. If left exposed, the foam will eventually crumble. An RH of 45% is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to which the humidity is relative. They almost always go by appraised value, with the size of the dwelling being one factor. Experienced sprayers who know the behavior of the product can repeatedly get the foam to cure in a nice even coat. Then why do the first two insulation quotes I've received specify closed cell foam down the walls to seal with the poly vapor barrier? I was reminded of this a few weeks back when I visited a job site with terribly applied spray foam. Suppose your roof is leaking, and its been letting water get under the top layer of your roofing system, which enters your insulation or deck. With metal shavings. In turn a market has developed for the salvage. https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/11/re-energy-efficiency#N1102.1.2, Even if you installed 3.25" of closed cell foam in the cavities (the most you could practically apply as cavity fill) and R5 on the exterior it would not meet the same performance standard, even though it would meet the letter (R20 + R5.). Why you might choose to use spray foam inside a metal building even though the interior is not heated or cooled. WebThe most honest answer I can give isabsolutely! This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Flames Aren't the Only Risk in Urban Wildfires. But perhaps in 50 years, things will be different. The table in my article accounts for the thermal bridging through the studs. Where can I use Great Stuff and Great Stuff Pro products? The thermal bridging performace hit isn't quite as large as with walls, but it's still real enough. These chemicals are pumped from a truck, transferred through a heated hose, and then sprayed onto an existing roof. Open-cell spray foam isnt as dense, so its easy to trim. Great Stuff Pro Polyurethane Foam Sealants can be used for both small and large air sealing and retrofit applications by DIYs or professionals. We, as builders, berate the Real Estate industry for "doing nothing" to collect commissions, or make fun of "sleazy" used car salesmen, and yet we seem to do the same or worst. In Zone 3 open cell is the best option for wood framed walls and ceilings. In most of the stud cavities the Membrain seems to do its job and after the outside humidity drops the condensation evaporates. Marc Currently, most IC fixtures are technically not rated for direct contact with spray foam. Martin Removing every last fastener isn't a simple task, especially when the nails were driven by a nail gun. The 3" of 2lb foam is 1lb of polymer per square foot of cavity area, whereas 3.5" of half-pound foam is only 0.146 lbs per square foot- call it 0.017lbs to account for any excess that's trimmed & discarded. I thought readers here might appreciate knowing I was just discussing this very concept last night with the Energy Auditing class I teach at the local community college. Since the foam is very light, it can be carried away by the wind. Prices Starting At $7.95. Amotuz, As the foam expands, it can intrude into the crevices and small openings inherent with this type of equipment. If that's the case, my own odds don't seem great. Use in crevices inside and outside your home, including the garage, attic, basement, and foundation. But with the product shortages and the supply chain issues currently going on, Were talking about metal, coatings, and single-ply. *Note: Great Stuff Insulating Foam Sealants are not for use in aviation, or food/beverage contact, or as structural support in marine applications. I wondered if this wasn't letting the area dry out and after reading the linked article the sun may be creating a bit of a humidity "hot spot" given the endless rain we have had. From portable to touch-up systems to high-capacity turnkey systems, we have you covered with equipment thats designed for the demands of day-to-day commercial jobs. Installers of open-cell spray foam will fill a 3.5-inch-deep cavity completely, allowing the foam to expand until it is proud of the studs. Here are other reasons why the price can go up or down, such as: The further away you are from a spray foam roofing contractor, the more expensive the project will be. Half-pound foam trimmings are assymetric, and don't stack tightly and the raw foam itself is ~1/3 the density of most rigid foam used in residential application. No spray foam for me. A spray foam roof has no seams, a popular area where water enters your roofing system. Christopher, 121 Commerce Dr. The amount of foam you really NEED in a new home design is pretty small (if any), and going without doesn't necessarily have to be more expensive or lower performance. I shoudl have started off the article by saying all insulation types can be badly installed.When done properly though, spray foam is a wonderful insulation with the caveat that it has a lot of embodied energy. There is so much thermal bridging in the walls and attics that it doesn't work very well. Response to Steve Kreisher Since closed-cell spray foam is already a vapor barrier, there is no need to install polyethylene on a wall insulated with closed-cell spray foam -- and in fact installing polyethylene on such a wall is not recommended. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Professional contractors needing heavy-duty spray foam coating equipment turn to Graco for our broad line of reliable and high-quality products. My understanding from the article is that the reason why the whole wall r-value of open vs closed is so close is due largely to the increased thermal bridging via the 1/2 of stud that remains "exposed" on the interior (and in smaller part, to the 1/2" less of insulation). For a mechanically-fastened EPDM roof, a cover board must be installed first, then the spray foam can be installed over the top. N'T just have to be filled with insulation. square footages for houses with exterior insulation but. 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